Do I need school to be...

an industry innovator? with Jesús Fernández

October 14, 2021 Alex Villacís Season 1 Episode 12
Do I need school to be...
an industry innovator? with Jesús Fernández
Show Notes Transcript

New week, new guest! This week I’m chatting with Jesús Fernández aka Chuy aka Jesse Fernández from the podcast ‘Learnings n Missteps’. A plumber who plumbs and is changing how the construction industry find new blood. A really fun chat where we talk about:

  • His podcast telling stories the men and women who build our structures
  • How he got into podcasting
  • The process of becoming a certified plumber
  • The figures that made him grow and turned him into a mentor

And more!

Want more Jesse in your life? Here are some links for you:
Learnings and Missteps Website
Learnings and Missteps on Instagram
Learnings and Missteps on Apple Podcast
Learnings and Missteps on Spotify

In an effort to make this podcast accessible, we make transcripts of every episode. You’ll find the transcripts on our website here, https://doineedschooltobe.buzzsprout.com

Want to support the pod? Follow us on social media, share us, review us or buy us a coffee!
‘Do I need school to be…” on Instagram
‘Do I need school to be…” on Facebook
Buy me a Coffee

Support the show
Jess Fernndez:

But you got to learn how to develop people and you have some skills and knowledge that you can share with them. And I was like, Wait, what? What do you like? What do you do? I'm gonna be nice to them and like no dummy blessing be nice. But you've got to serve them. You're their leaders serve them to help them build their careers.

Alex Villacis:

Hello, friend. And welcome back to another episode of joining school to be a podcast where me Alex is going to sit down with people in the creative field to ask them all the questions about how they got to where they got, and who were the teachers, what books, movies and stuff influenced them. Because we're all different, and we all learn in different ways, and I really want to talk about it. On today's episode, I'm sitting down with his host Fernandez, who is a plumber who plums. Yeah, this is all very creative, but it actually is because he took a creative path. There are so many parallels between his journey and a journey of a creative that actually blew my mind. He is also a podcaster. His podcast is called Learning and missteps. And it's all about the journey and traits and yeah, it's a great show. I highly recommend it. You'll find it in the show notes. But for now, just join my conversation with Hass Martinez. I feel innovator. And we're recording so morning to it's morning for you, right?

Jess Fernndez:

Correct. It's 6am over here. Where are you?

Alex Villacis:

I'm in the Netherlands. Where is 1pm? This It's amazing. Yeah, it's like how is the internet bringing us all together like having these conversations and we we connected through clubhouse so thank you internet again for that.

Jess Fernndez:

Exactly, exactly. club house has turned out to be a powerful tool.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah, it's honestly my favourite social media app so far. They've been on the Facebook I'm on the LinkedIn on the Instagram but club has proven to be the favourite, my favourite because it feels more human to me for some reason. And less, less curated?

Jess Fernndez:

Yes, absolutely. 100%.

Alex Villacis:

I would love to know and for you to tell the audience who you are and what you're currently doing.

Jess Fernndez:

Beautiful. Well, Alejandra Good morning. And for the audience. I've This is a special situation that I am being called chewy. Because my name the name my mama gave me his hair Sue's some people call me Jessie, but only the super cool people call me chewy. So thank you.

Alex Villacis:

Of course, it's a very, very Mexican thing. I'm not Mexican. I live in Mexico for years. So I got all the names and everything down.

Jess Fernndez:

Oh, yeah. You know, my, my job right now that my title is regional lien manager. And I serve the central United States has multiple states here. And so that's where I am now. And so what that means is I coach some folks, some teams, business units, construction teams, collaborative planning, optimising workload, just making the day easier, less burdensome, right? That is my goal. I'm a team of nine, me and there's eight others that I get to play with. Now, that's where I am now, which is very strange, right? Because it sounds a little spooky, kind of the fun, really like my jobs, a lot of fun. I began my career back in 1995, as an apprentice plumber. So I graduated high school, started working as an apprentice plumber, I'm a second generation plumber, my dad's a plumber. And on our family, we've got a few plumbers out there. And over the past, whatever that is 2030 years, I've taken a very windy road. That doesn't really make sense when I map it out. It it's, again, it's just it wasn't a straight line at all. That being said, Every step has been 100% fulfilling and some of those steps were driven by short sighted selfish decisions that I made that really forced me to, to shift. And the outcome of that shift has been beautiful, like fulfilling and rewarding. I could not have explained it any better.

Alex Villacis:

Sounds like a Monet painting. Yeah, because I read this analogy. A while back, I went with my grandmother who was visiting from Latin America, and I said, Grandma, I want to have this experience with you. Let's go to Portugal together and it's good friends together. And we went to when we were in Paris went to this Monet exhibit. And I read somewhere in one of these like the leaflets that they give you that looking at a Monet painting is like having the perspective of God that we as humans look at it up close and we only see like random brushstrokes that we don't understand. But then when you step away from it, everything makes sense. That's how God sees the world. So we don't understand it because we're leaving it. But there's a there's something behind it. And sounds like that was your journey. You made a lot of things and you didn't understand. But somehow you landed where you want it to be in your that was intentional.

Jess Fernndez:

I am an artist. Oh my god.

Alex Villacis:

Looking and here we're saying that you're not creative. Got you got your podcast, learning in and missteps.

Jess Fernndez:

Yes, yes. So the title of the podcast is learnings and missteps. And thank you for, for reminding me, I forget, you know, the the name that I tell you what it's about and then reconcile the title and what the podcast is about. So as I mentioned, I work in the construction industry. And it's what we do on the learnings of missteps podcasts, the whole purpose of the podcast is to is to celebrate the men and women that have built careers in the construction industry. And because we are committed to changing the image of careers in the trades, you know, I like I said, I started my, my, my career back in 95, the apprentice plumber. And even though I found the work, extremely rewarding, and the camaraderie and the competitiveness, this competitiveness, it still internally in my head, I had a major clash. It was it was difficult. Because the message that I had been receiving was go to college, or flip burgers, you're a failure if you don't go to college. And, and I was planning on going right, like, that was the plan until I got that summer job right out of high school. So I needed to make some money to pay for room and board. And, and like I said, I showed up on the job site, it was a commercial job site. And I just felt like, I'm home. All the problems I had in the classroom. We're not a problem. So you know, I was I was school wasn't difficult for me, right? Like the classwork was very easy. My problem was sitting down, and staying quiet. Like it just wasn't, we weren't going fast enough, you know. So I was always in trouble. And if I was in trouble, I was distracting people and joking around. And like I just, I couldn't. So when I got out on the job site, it was like, there was just so much sensory input, that it was enough for me to be calm, and focus. And I was like, man, I got to do this. So again, there was this conflict of, Oh, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I'm making a good living, I can build a career out of this. And then the expectations of you need a degree you need like you're a failure, because you're not going to school. Anyhow, it took a few years for me to this was like my third year of apprenticeship when I finally just said, You know what, this is what I got to do. And And so since then, because of that experience, over the years, I've I've tried very hard to, to connect with teachers, educators and students, and show them a different view a different image of the industry, because most people, I think, I don't know, I know a lot of people when I tell them, I'm a plumber, they say, well, you don't look like a plumber. And it's okay, well, what does a plumber look like? Anyhow, that's what I was doing to try to fill that gap of, of, of giving back and spreading the message. And it was just informing, right? Like, there is an option and it's pretty darn cool. If you can put up with the elements. Anyhow, then then the corona hit. And so I couldn't go visit schools anymore. And like that piece of that little outlet that I had that was infrequent, was gone. And I started like, oh, how do I do this? What do I do, you know, started feeling just very isolated. And a friend of mine, she said, Jessie, you need to watch. Have you seen Danny Trejo? Are you familiar with Danny Trejo, of course, machete

Alex Villacis:

course.

Jess Fernndez:

So there's like a biography about him. And she's said, Hey, Jess, you need to watch that. And I trust her like unconditionally. So I said, Okay, so I watched it. And I'm telling you as soon as I finished watching that, I knew that I had to start a podcast, not because he's not a podcaster it clicked. Yeah, absolutely. Click that said, Okay, here I am complaining and whining about how I can engage with students and parents and teachers. And I can. So I need to start a podcast and the podcast, again is to celebrate the men and women that that put their lives out there. And really, you know, when we see a construction worker, we have hard hats, we have vest. But what we don't see is like the amazing things that they do for their communities, the deep care that they have for all the people around them, the number of people that they've touched through educating them teaching, sharing their knowledge, or just fixing some buddies, whatever, right? Like if your water heater ain't working, that's not fun. And when somebody comes in fixes that for you, and they're cool, right, because some of them and cool, but when they come and fix it for you. That's nice, right? So there's a there's a component of, you know, giving back or easing the pain of the community through the work itself. So that's what we talk about on our podcast, and the learnings and missteps comes from. We asked three questions of our guests. The first question is, what do you want our audience to know about you? The second question is, what were your earliest career aspirations? And the third question is, what fingerprint? Do you want to leave on the world going forward? Those are the only three questions we're trying to answer. And through that, we get to hear all the decisions that they've made the good ones and the bad ones. And it's my idea that the way we grow and expand ourselves and expand our contribution to the world to the universe, is through the learnings and missteps that we have along the way. And so we get to pull out their learnings and missteps, and I got, like, for me, if it was just gonna be about me, the podcast would be titled missteps, like no learnings, just missteps.

Alex Villacis:

And but I want to go back to the podcast because you said something very interesting to me. You're a licenced plumber, like, I know that you need to go through a formal education to be able to exercise a trade. Yes, I think you can just say, like, I experimented in my house, or I've been going back to create to the creative journey. You cannot say I'm a self taught plumber, you have to, like get certified and correct things. During that, like how does do you go to an apprenticeship? Or you learn from one person? Or do you go to plumbing school? And do you have any, like people who impacted your journey?

Jess Fernndez:

Oh, absolutely. Thank you. And thank you for getting me back to centre because I'll, I'll go all over.

Alex Villacis:

That's my role. I'm the host. That's my role. Yes,

Jess Fernndez:

yes. So first thing I did, I'll tell my specific journey. That's pretty, pretty simple, right? I connected my foreman on the project challenged me. So Jesse, I need you to fill out this paperwork and submit it. And what it was it was in, in Texas, because I'm from San Antonio, Texas. So in Texas, we have a the Texas State plumbing board. And so they govern or manage the licencing and so forth for plumbers. So when I filled out that document, I had no idea it says like, whatever. Yeah, sign it right. You're my boss. That made me a registered apprentice with the state. So it's a state document saying you are a registered apprentice with the state of Texas. And once you do that now all the hours that you work count. If you don't have that, there is a way to get credit for your hours previous to the previously work, but it's not easy. It's a pain in the butt to go get your employer to sign documents and affidavits and regional I'm sorry, responsible plumbers like it's it's it's serious. It's like you said, we're not just show up and look super sexy in our hardhat and Okay, well, you're a plumber like No, man. It's serious stuff. So you get you first you register for apprenticeship and you get your apprentice card. And now they you got to work 8000 hours, which is about four years before you're qualified to register for a journeyman licence examination. Now you can also you can get there's different degrees of plumbing licence. So along the way you can get like a drain cleaners licence you can get what's the other one? Anyways, there's a bunch of them. And as you go accumulating your hours you can get the new certification, accreditation, but attached to your number, your licence number. So there's a lot of experiential learning, right, you're out there doing it and you've got to you have to be working under a responsible master plumber, which is a technical term and an actual licence as again to the degrees of the licencing In order to run a pump plumbing company, you've got to have a responsible master plumbing licence. And then you are responsible not only for the execution of the work, but also for the people that are coming up through your organisation. So developing them and making sure that they're learning the appropriate methodologies. And science, if you will, behind the plumbing. Then there's apprenticeship programmes, and so that's the route that I went. So for the state, I don't think it's required that an individual would go through an apprenticeship programme in its entirety. But there is a minimum requirement of classroom hours, that a that a person applying to get their licence must have. Is that too confusing or clear?

Alex Villacis:

No, it's actually, I mean, my mind connected to so many things. Not First of all, the fact that it's a four, it's a four year, it's a four year training. It's a four year education. Basically, it's like a bachelor's degree, it's usually four years in education. I'm thinking there, I'm also linking it to the master plumber part. Because my best friend, he's a mastering master in martial arts. And once I asked him, what's the difference between being a master and being just a black belt? It's like, well, you can be a black belt and not be a master. Because as a master, you teach, and you're responsible for everything everybody does underneath you. Yes, I'm like, that's just the teaching part. It's like no, you can lose your title of a master. If somebody beneath you you certify another master and that master fails at something. You can't you lose it, it's it's how you train that the master is the teacher. If Yeah, and I think it's it relates also so well to design and creative education, because it's the same thing. We go, we train underneath somebody, and then that person responsible for all the work that we do, like if you don't do and you're don't perform correctly, or if you fail at something, that person who's responsible for your education, it's taking that, that toll that knowledge that if I'm teaching you, you're going to be either as good as me, or better than me? Yes. Because you're carrying that like, it's, it sounds like a lot of legacy, it's involved in it. And now now that you are in a position that you're in, do you see yourself like becoming like, are you teaching now people or in your team? Are you training somebody to be like you? or How are you training them? What's these yourself as a mentor because I was like, it'd be a great mentor to be on.

Jess Fernndez:

Thank you. Thank you very much for that. I would never abuse anybody in such a way that they would end up like me. That's a joke. You know, back to what I was talking about, you know, practising and pursuing my curiosities and continuing to learn and the question of being a teacher I always wanted to be a teacher. Like when I was in high school, that's what I want I was it was like okay, you know when they asked you right, what do you want to do when you grow up? Like first I don't want to grow up but I want to be an engineer because everybody said I should be I don't know what an engineer looks like, but I was good at math. So I would say engineer because that was impressive, right? All that Diaz Oh, my family would like they would back out like I mean, you wouldn't be an engineer and they would leave me alone. But I really wanted to be a teacher. And so I would say sometimes I would say yeah, I want to be a teacher. And they're like, Oh, you don't want to be a teacher like they don't make a lot of money right? Like Yeah, but it's not about the money Hello. So fast forward to now or back then even now, as I continued to build my mind and my knowledge base, I ended up teaching like I'm not a like I'm not a certified teacher by any means. Well, I do have some certifications to teach. But I didn't go the college route right like there they were for like NCC er, which is like trade recognised curriculum. So I got a master trainer certification and that and started deploying an in house trade skills training programme. I put together a transitional training programme that helped people transition from installer to foreman, and from foreman to superintendent. And so that programme, what it did was, it was a result of the pain that I experienced, because I went through that right, like I got a promotion. And it's a funny thing. This probably happens everywhere. But I was pretty good at installing, like my work look decent and I was fast. So I got a promotion to be a foreman, but I got an preparation to be a foreman. Right? Like I knew, so I knew what a bad foreman was, and I just wasn't gonna do that. And I had a couple of good mentors in front of me that I could ask and, and seek guidance or just mod, like, emulate. And so I sucked really bad at the job that the very beginning. And then when I got good at being a foreman, I got promoted to be a superintendent and I sucked again. Right? And I had, it is annoying. Now when that was happening, you know, Jim Jones. So there's Johnny Martinez, Jim Jones, Wesley Baker, those guys in my career earlier in my career, have been monumental in my growth. And and, you know, they've all brought, like Johnny Martinez was the first plumber that I worked under, that wasn't my dad. And he's the man that said, you need to fill out your apprenticeship card. And he's the guy that challenged me and pushed me, you know, he give me homework assignments. And I'd complain like, bro, I'm off the clock. I don't have to do that. And he's like, you're right. You don't have to. But I also don't have to let you come to work tomorrow, that dog into Johnny, right? Like I was pissed, solid, right? But it was real. And if had he not done that, I wouldn't be where I'm at. Like, he taught me the value of investing and learning outside of work. He never said it that way. Because if he just said it that way that have been too complicated and formal. Anyhow, the other guys, Jim and Wesley Baker, what they really helped me understand was, because I'm a hyper competitive person. And so I was always focused on budget, making money finishing ahead of schedule. And I could do that. Turns out that's not that hard. However, people did not want to work with me, people would quit or avoid working with me. Right? Like, I was not the sweetest guy in the world. zactly. And so they, they helped me understand like, Jess, if you want to continue to grow, not only do you have to have financial success, you also have to build and develop people. And right now you're killing it on the financial success part. And that's okay, if you want to stay where you're at for 20 more years, keep doing that. But you got to learn how to develop people, and you have some skills and knowledge that you can share with that. And I was like, wait, what, what do you like, what do you want to be nice to them and like no dummies when I think be nice, but you've got to serve them, you're their leaders serve them to help them build their careers. And so that took a long time. But again, those guys really modelled the behaviour that they were seeking. So it's very easy for me, like I had a resource right there. That's what it looks like, let me go talk to him. And and they helped me turn up tremendously like that. And then concurrently, I started the that the the training programme for foreman and Superintendent after that started an internship programme, which was way out of everybody's comfort zone. But the reality of so here's what happened, I was, you know, I've worked in the industry. And at this point in time, I was responsible for acquiring all the manpower that we needed to put on our projects. And it was very difficult to get that manpower. And what ended up with it, there was the cycle of with the same groups of people or individuals, they would come work, somebody or one of our competitors would give them 50 cents or $1 more, they would quit and go over there and they would do that for two or three rounds. And they come back within a year with the same skill set making $3 more an hour. And then they do that again, right so it was like the end and the reality is the market is set up to where I mean if you're in the trade right now in the States, you can quit and you'll have four jobs on your way home right now. Like it's the we need people everywhere. And so it's that is just getting worse. Which is great for us with the knowledge because right like now you want to dance with me.

Alex Villacis:

So now you're Okay, so now all these trades now all these careers are are actually something that you wanted to go

Jess Fernndez:

Yes, exactly. So Oh, where was I on that? I got lost.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah. So um, people were coming back going to another? Oh, yes,

Jess Fernndez:

yes, yes. And so then it was like, at the same time I again, engaging with the high school I was on a an advisory council for a super cool programme in San Antonio now there's more of them so it was his high school that had a trade component to it. And so it's called construction careers Academy. And these these students, they would come out they would graduate high school with an OSHA 10 safety certification, fundamental knowledge and tools, fundamental knowledge in materials and methods and systems like and they were getting connected to industry so I'm on this council and we're talking to the you know, the administrators and what and they're like, well, we just can't find these people jobs. I'm like, why not? There are jobs, there's tonnes of jobs like like the companies don't want to hire them. And I'm representing the company and like, Well, why not? And they're like Jesse Well, you gotta answer that you're one of them said that is a great question. So then I started recruiting like Okay, come on, let's go I'll put you out of work. So anyhow, I put you to work but then the reality right I'm like cool, come on. Well then when I started recruiting these these students right out of high school people freaked out a little bit project manager people that had been in the industry for it because this was new right? It was a new thing. And so they were fearful that you know what if they get hurt I'm like, man, we got 40 or 50 year olds getting hurt all the time so it's not an age thing right like come on it was it was it was just abnormal It was not the practice so there were people listening you you got it was a little bit of change so people were pushing back but we you know, I was I was very selective in the recruiting process got a couple of folks come in, and they killed it. So then people were like, Hey, we need some more of these young guys right? Like Yeah, but it's still not good enough. So right after that, then I said you know, what we need to do is we need to establish an internship programme for the students between their junior and senior year of high school so that because part of the problem was they would come out and it's hot, right? Like I'm in Texas is hot. And you got to have thick skin because construction workers were not the most nurturing type. And you gotta wake up early.

Alex Villacis:

So this is a taste of what it's actually like,

Jess Fernndez:

You got it, you got it, because we would, you know, it was about a five, five to 10% retention. By my first wave, you know, I get like up to 10 people, and one would stay most of them would quit and it's because you know, jerk heads or it's hot or it's too early the drives too, you know, all this stuff. And like, man, like what is what's the problem here? They don't know what it feels like. So boom, let's go earlier, started an internship programme. And again, people freaked out. Like there's there's their miners and wow, you know, and it took like, I there was a lot of iterations that I had to go through with safety and loss prevention, like it was, it was a pretty serious thing. labour laws, child labour laws. Anyhow, Diana honghui, she's amazing woman, she really, she really did most she made sure that I didn't do something stupid. So she, she was like my chaperone, right. She really deserves all the credit. I just kept screaming and yelling, and we got to do that. And then we did,

Alex Villacis:

you're gonna do the children exam. Let's remember. Remember their children,

Jess Fernndez:

yo, yo. And, and we did it. And so we started with three students, one young lady, two young men. And it's grown since then, right within that organisation, they've expanded it. And I shared our print, like, this is what I did to get here shared it with our other other people in the industry. And so here in San Antonio, that's continuing to expand so that we can connect this to and here's the beautiful part. They learned what it felt like, what they liked what they didn't like, which trade because we ran plumbing, sheetmetal and piping. And so they got to select like, Oh, I want to be a sheetmetal apprentice or I want to be a pipe fitters helper, I want to be a plumber, or I don't want to do this. And it was low cost, high impact. And so again, it's expanded since then. So back to the teaching part that was part of that was a result of putting some programmes together to help transition like career transition or position transition. And then getting connected with the schools and making those like you're doing as I'm talking, right, you're making all of these connections. So that led to public speaking, and if you can't tell I'm pretty good at talking right?

Alex Villacis:

I'm mesmerised. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm thoroughly mesmerised some other topic. I don't know, I honestly, I'm trying to think, what is pipe feeding has with pipes? But I don't care. I want to hear about it.

Jess Fernndez:

Yes, yeah. Well, so that's a good question. So plumbing, if you think of plumbing in terms of the systems that bring in the water that you drink, and put on your body, and take out all of the stuff that comes out of your body, that would, that's a general that's in systems perspective, that's plumbing. When I say duct and HVC, what we're talking about is the systems that that transport the air, the hot air, or the cold air into our space, so that we're comfortable. And when I think about pipe fitting, so you can think of pipe fittings in terms of the piping that distributes, let's say the fuel to your heater, if you have a heater or a radiator, or the the, the coolant that goes to the cooling system or the heating system. So there's a separation there between plumber and pipe fitter. Because the plumber, we the licencing is stricter than it is for pipe fitting, at least in Texas. The skill sets are very similar, but they are not exactly the same. Does that help?

Alex Villacis:

It does, it's like I'm thinking about general physician and a cardiologist like there's, they have same similar certifications, they both have share that there is there's connective tissue between the two, but they have different points of strength, they have different focuses. I love how we seamlessly went into what the future of creative education is that it's giving an experience and allowing people to be like, Hey, this is what you're studying, this is why you're learning will have snow so far. This is how it applies in real life. This is when it's going to be like, do you want to do this or not? Or I think also learning what you don't want to do is as important as learning what you want to do. Yes, yes, it can be that you meet randomly a person and say like, hey, I want to do what they're doing that looks interesting. What are you doing and developing that curiosity and feeding that curiosity as well? Yeah. And also when this internship programme, you're giving them a space to learn. And I think it's worth only think of internships be like, Oh, I'm going to intern in where you're in the US. I'm going to internet, Facebook, I'm going to interact. We don't think about interning in a construction company or interning in other places or interning in a nonprofit or something. But figuring out how can I fit what what skills do I have? And how can I fit them into our professional life in the future. And that's what you see in an internship. I think it's great that you're doing such important work. It's insane. It's so true. Like I'm not going to get on the soapbox again. I am not going to do this because I don't want to steal too much of your day. So right now as we're making until the end of the podcast, I'm guessing you want to promote whether you're on a pro you want to promote your podcast, please promote it because I think it's so important that we tell the stories of people in trades because that's how we humanise these things we get. It's not only a job, it's a person doing a job.

Jess Fernndez:

Absolutely. Well I appreciate you being gracious and allowing me to blab my mouth for so long. And to talk about talk about the podcast. It's we can find it learnings and missteps.com. So they go to that website and you can access all the good stuff. I will warn the audience like I'm not a professional podcaster like that either.

Alex Villacis:

You're fine, right? I

Jess Fernndez:

just hit walmer I just did and just go so I have a we have a YouTube account. But if you're into cinematography and high end video, I'm not your guy. Like that's not don't come to me for that people

Alex Villacis:

will save from the cut people will stay for the quality for the content exactly where the content. But you'll see

Jess Fernndez:

yes, if you want to get like real insight, real connection to, again, the men and women that are out there building the buildings that we learn in maintaining the buildings that we live in. You're gonna get that from our podcast 100%. And every now and then. So my baby brother and I have a baby brother who's 18 years younger than me. He's the co host every now and then he and I will just have a one on one conversation in an episode will be about he's he's a young professional. He's his early 20s and he is growing his career and figuring that out, like what does that mean and where does he fit and what? So you mentioned this, these transferable or transcendent skills that we have. Do awareness of the fact that they are transcendent or transferable is very low in most people. Like I didn't get that until my late 30s if I knew it in my 20s Oh my goodness, I didn't know I thought I'm a plumber. I'm just a plumber and I'm a plumber that plumps, but there's

Alex Villacis:

a shirt I people keep dropping in this part. I keep saying that. I think the artists gonna be bored of me saying that, because people keep dropping these phrases that I can see in T shirt in teachers is like, I'm a plumber who pumps it's like that. And then and then the picture of a plumber like right underneath the Yo, yo, yes. And the plumber has a hard

Jess Fernndez:

Yes, I'm writing it down.

Alex Villacis:

Your podcast where we need spurge, you can put it I'm just a plumber who pumps

Jess Fernndez:

Just do it. With the hard hat with the hard the

Alex Villacis:

hard hat it's very important that we maybe we should design it together. I'm happy to do it because it's gonna be hilarious. And

Jess Fernndez:

it'll be great. Yeah, so every now and then we'll have an episode there of he and I like really just advising and or how I help him examine his thinking, because that's kind of my job now is I get to coach folks. And and, and help them examine their thinking and help them define their path forward. But it's been a long road to get here. The podcast, you know, like we talked about the feedback loop earlier. I don't know about you, but it's rare for me to to get like, reviews on Apple or whatever it is. But man, anytime I get, like a like or something on the social media or on the, you know, wherever. It's like, Oh, yes. I have enough energy. So yeah, well, good

Alex Villacis:

luck in the appreciation. You're like, Yes, yeah,

Jess Fernndez:

yes. Yeah, it makes it worth it. It's totally worth it.

Alex Villacis:

Although it's not. I think it's not for the listeners as much. It's for you. That's how I feel about this podcast, too. It's, this is coming out in August. So we're, we're making this recording before I publish it. And I keep thinking, Okay, if one person listens to this episode, and because this episode, they go to your podcast, and because of your podcasts, they're like, Oh, I didn't think about it this way. I'm gonna think maybe I'm going to think about a career in this. Or I'm going to think differently about the plumber coming to my house tomorrow, then that is already something and that's that's the thing. We don't get the direct feedback. We don't know what kind of effect we have.

Jess Fernndez:

Nailed it. 100% Well,

Alex Villacis:

I love this. Thank you so much tree for talking to me today. This was really, really incredible. And yeah, we'll stay in touch and we'll see what comes next. Yes, ma'am. We'll make a T

Jess Fernndez:

shirt. Yes, clovers, plum baby.

Alex Villacis:

Oh my god. So so fun. Well, thank you so much. And there you have it. That was my conversation with his host Fernandez, aka true aka Jessie, the host one of the hosts of learnings and missteps, a podcast telling stories about men and women in the construction industry. Yeah. I mean, how creative is that? I love the work that he does. I think it's super valuable. I have these fear of a future where everybody is an influencer or a social media person or a content creator. Right now, and nobody knows to actually I don't know if it's a shelf or something or build a house or Yeah, I mean, I had a hold ran on the podcast that I had to take out because of time. But I hope you enjoy this conversation. I will not get on my soapbox about it. You'll find all the details about Jesse's podcasts and all his efforts in the show notes and I hope you enjoy it. Thank you for joining me again this week. I hope you like it. Feel free to leave us a review on Apple podcasts or any podcasting app that you use. And to shoot us a DM reach out to us on social media is the website all the things you know what to do. And yeah, I hope to be in your ears next week with another awesome interview. Keep learning stay curious and have a good week. Bye