Do I need school to be...

a book editor? with Stephanie Mojica

September 16, 2021 Alex Villacís Season 1 Episode 8
Do I need school to be...
a book editor? with Stephanie Mojica
Show Notes Transcript

On the podcast this week we have Stephanie Mojica, a book editor, coach, teacher and much more. Have you ever wanted to write a book but didn’t know where to start? That’s where Stephanie comes in! From beginning to end, she helps her clients her the book out of their heads and into the world. In this episode we talk about her work, some not so great teachers she had, what is a coach and much more.

Stephanie is all over the Internet, here are some ways to reach out to her:
 Website
Instagram
LinkedIn
The Visible Authority Virtual Event
Book a call with Stephanie

Stephanie’s resources:
Get that book written now Course
3 Things You Must Know Before Writing Your Book

In an effort to make this podcast accessible, we make transcripts of every episode. You’ll find the transcripts on our website here, https://doineedschooltobe.buzzsprout.com

Want to support the pod? Follow us on social media, share us, review us or buy us a coffee!
Instagram
Buy me a Coffee

Support the show
Stephanie Mojica:

So I've worked with several colleges, and there was never like an editing class. So it's not something you necessarily go to school for. But I think there are skills you can learn in and out of school that can help you become an editor.

Alex Villacis:

Hello, friend, and welcome back to another episode of join me in school to be a podcast in which me Alex is going to sit down with people in the creative field. And I'll ask them questions about their journey more specifically about their education, how they learn their trade, or their mentors, or who are their mentors, what books influenced them, and hopefully find some answers that will maybe guide you in your journey in the creative field. Everybody's different, and we all learn in different ways. So of course, we're all going to take different paths, and they're all valid. In this show, I am celebrating any type of education, whether that is formal education, whether that is self taught, whether that is the internet, it doesn't matter. We have so many options today, and I want to talk about it. So let's talk about it. And let's have some fun together. My guest for this week, my guest for this week, what can I say about her? Aside from she's pretty awesome. Her name is Stephanie mihika. She is a book editor and a teacher she calls herself. She helps people get their books out of their head and into the paper. I mean, how many times have you thought, Hmm, I can write a book about my life. Or I could write a book about my journey, you probably can do just need a little bit of help. And somebody like Stephanie, is who you need. She is a powerful Latina, she's a powerful creator. She has so many resources available that you will find the show notes to help you in your book writing journey. I mean, we're in the era of communication, we can do this, and she can help you do it. So in this conversation, we talked about many things. We talked about how she got into writing how she got into editing, some not so great teachers that she had, but she still learned a lot from them, and how she uses that sandwich method to give feedback, which I think it's super vital, knowing how to give feedback and have people accepted. That's a pretty cool talent to have, in my opinion. Well, I don't want to spoil too much. Here's my conversation with the wonderful Stephanie Mojica. Hi, Stephanie, thank you so much for being here. How was your day?

Stephanie Mojica:

Good. Thank you for having me, really appreciate it.

Alex Villacis:

Looking forward to hearing your story as a book editor. Let's start with telling the audience who you are what you do.

Stephanie Mojica:

Alright, so my name is Stephanie Mohica. I'm a book editor. I'm also a book development coach for folks on book editing. So basically, what I do is I edit people's books. Once they've written them, there's we can go into but there's multiple kinds of editing that I do, as well as proofreading. And so that's the main thing we're gonna talk about today. Book editing.

Alex Villacis:

That's awesome. And how did you get into this field? Because in like, are you self taught? Or did you go to school for this? How, because in this podcast, we want to talk about that exactly about education for creative professionals like yours, and try to break a little bit that stigma that you need to go to a particular path. So what was your path into these field?

Stephanie Mojica:

So actually, I went to school for writing, which is a different skill from editing. They're similar but not equal. So I went to school to become a journalist for newspapers, because that's what you were supposed to do back in the 1990s. And while I was in school, I had a professor who said it was important for me to learn editing, so I did some editing for his poetry. He's a poet, so I did some editing for his poetry books helped them type up some books. And so that's kind of how I started learn editing. I've always been around words ever since I was a little girl. So a lot of people asked me to read their stuff, make sure everything spoke correctly, etc. So I went to several colleges, and there was never like an editing class. So it's not something you necessarily go to school for. But I think there are skills you can learn in and out of school that can help you become an editor.

Alex Villacis:

That's wonderful. I love hearing that. It's something that developed in you and you had this passion since you were little Do you have like a book that you say that's what kicked started at for me? Or was it spoken word or what what kickstarted your love for words?

Stephanie Mojica:

I guess I would say ever since I was a little girl I was interested in reading my grandmother who's now deceased was a writer wound up become a published author. My mother writes, one of my grandmother's husband she is married multiple times, was also a published author. So I think I've just always been around words and had a love of reading. So when the kids were drawing pictures in like elementary school, I prefer to Right. So I think that's basically how it happened.

Alex Villacis:

That's so cool. I would love to see a little kid that it's like everybody's drawing and they're like writing, I think that would be such a great, it's not very common. It's It's such a unique experience. And then so your family were your first teachers, you could say, so

Stephanie Mojica:

I wouldn't say to anyone necessarily sat down and taught me how to write write, I mean, besides, obviously, you know, where we write our alphabet, and, you know, things in school, I wouldn't say anyone sat down and taught me how to write. My grandmother did a lot more creative writing than I do. I mean, when I was younger, especially I've read a lot of poetry. And you know, so I wouldn't say it necessarily taught me but I was around it.

Alex Villacis:

That's so nice. And so you go to college, and what was your experience? Like in college? You didn't find a class that was editing? But did you then have to design your own education? Or how are they drew, learn the skills was like trial and error? Would you consider yourself self taught then? I would say I'm largely self taught with some mentors. So when I started working at newspapers, we did have people who were editors, and they didn't necessarily go to school to be editors, either. They started off as writers and reporters, and then just kind of learned along the way. So at the big newspapers, nobody ever really asked me to read their work, because they had people who did that, and were very loved got very territorial. Like, editing people's work. But then when I started working for smaller newspapers, you kind of everybody did a little bit of everything. So a lot of times, I would have to read other people's work. Or, like, once there was an, there were three newspapers I did freelance writing for and the editor needed to go out of town. And she knew that when I turned in my work, it didn't have a bunch of mistakes in it. So they paid me for a week to like, edit it. So it's just kind of something that naturally grew. Wow, just thrusted into this, like, yeah, you know what, you got it here. And you. You mentioned mentors, like Who were your mentors?

Stephanie Mojica:

Well, let's say a professor I had in college, Gary Short, who was, you know, he's still alive, but I think he's retired. You know, a poet also taught poetry, had some fellowships for writing poetry, like I said, I was his assistant, and would edit some of his work. And, you know, he would pay me in Starbucks and a little cash. And I would type up some his manuscripts. And then I would just say some of the newspaper editors I've worked with, were very good and very open and didn't get like territorial. Because there's a lot of competition for editing jobs at newspapers, because those are usually paid better. They have more leadership role. But there was some people who didn't act like I was a threat to them.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah, I think that happens, I think, at some point that people are threatened by the young, up and comer. And they're like, No, I have to protect my territory.

Stephanie Mojica:

Yeah, I had some people who were extremely threatened and tried to do everything they could to bring me down, especially as a Latina. It was, yeah, wow. It was like either predominantly white or predominantly black. Or, you know, and there was kind of not really much of a space for Latinos. So there was some stigma around that as well.

Alex Villacis:

And did any other people that were training you or around you were some of these quote unquote, bad teachers, because I'm guessing there's a lot of feedback also to give that you do something and you get feedback from them. What was the feedback like because as an editor, your job is to give feedback. So who taught you how to give feedback.

Stephanie Mojica:

So I kind of learned as I went, like, I knew what good fit feedback looked like and felt like and then with bad feedback, where you could tell the person really wish they had written the story themselves, because you have to understand that some a lot of these editors used to be reporters. And they didn't necessarily live up because of the love of editing. But they wanted the money and the title. So some of them not all of them, please don't mistake me but some of them were kind of bitter that they were behind the desk and weren't out there in the street. So they would take it out on the reporters, they thought we're doing the exciting work. So I could tell when somebody was like just rewriting it because of how they would do it themselves. And I always have not been that kind of editor. It's not my story. When you ask me to edit it, especially if it's your book or something. My job is to make your story look the best possible, if not make it into my own.

Alex Villacis:

Wow, that's wonderful. And you worked predominantly with young writers, right? From what I understand.

Stephanie Mojica:

I'm not necessarily I mean, at the first newspapers I worked at, I would say I was by far the youngest. I started off my career was different. I started off at the bigger news. papers and as the industry changed, jobs became fewer and fewer, I had to go work at the smaller newspapers. And that's where I would run to lot. Like I had supervisors younger than me. It was like, uncomfortable for everybody involved. So my path was a little different. Like I said, I entered the industry at right before it started, I guess about five, six years for it started changing and people started getting, you know, social media was invented, you know, things like that, and the trajectory and everything changed. So it started off very differently ended quite differently.

Alex Villacis:

Well, it's still ongoing, I think it's going through this transformative period. It's kind of like an industrial revolution, when suddenly you had the you when you didn't have like, handweavers, you had weaving machines. And now you it's transforming. I wouldn't say it's transforming for the best to be honest.

Stephanie Mojica:

No

Alex Villacis:

I mean, it's changing.

Stephanie Mojica:

I've had people. I've had people contact me recently that I used to, like, you know, interview at last newspaper I've worked at, and they're like, I wish you were still here. Because these people that are calling themselves journalists don't know what they're doing. They go take a couple classes, and they, you know, go think posting stuff online is news. I've had several people contact me like nobody is really learning ethics or how to investigate social problems. They just want to be the first to get something anything out there. And it's not always correct. So I've had actually the mayor of cities of a city contact me. I've had like financial officers from like, large organisations contact me literally, just two weeks ago, somebody contact me, and I haven't been working on this page for six years. So people still remember me.

Alex Villacis:

Well, that's your reputation right there. Right? exactly who you people are like, yeah, quality quote, you always remember the really, really good ones are they're really, really bad ones those sticking your head in sounds like you're one of their really, really good ones. But I am not surprised at all. So one of my questions was, where do you see creative education going? So in the world of editing and journalism, now, and you mentioned social media, so it segues beautifully. People have so much access now you can just open a blog and write Where do you think it's going? Do you think ethics should be playing? Or will be playing a larger role in the future? Or are we going into the direction where just like mass producing of news? I see us going in the wrong direction. And this is not a political statement. I honestly see us going in the wrong direction. I see people who are calling themselves writers, journalists, copywriters, editors who maybe took a class online or read an article online, I see an environment where how you look seems a lot more important than who you are and what you do. I see like things, you know, and I hate saying this, but I see fake news coming up all the time, where somebody like posts first ask questions later. There's no, there doesn't seem to be any knowledge of ethics, or even basic laws that should be associated with journalism, like you can't just say, whatever you want. I mean, I'm not that old. I'm 41. And when I was starting out, you didn't say certain things about any president. And, you know, I haven't liked any president for a long time to sort of record. But you did say certain things about a president and people, whether they call themselves journalists or not, I have no hesitation about saying whatever they want, even making threats, you know, doxxing people, it's, it's very concerning. I totally agree with that. And please feel free to express your opinion, this podcast is open to all opinions. Even though people say that I shouldn't be saying that. But I think this should be an open space in which we have to discuss these things. I see a culture that it's focusing on silencing people and then fighting against the silencing. But then by silencing others it's is this snake eating its tail. And by trying to avoid the mistakes from others, were making the same mistakes just is the same mistakes or with a different mask is a different colours a different generation, but we're making the same mistakes over and over again. And that's the problem that I personally see. And I see it also in the design field, I see that we are fighting for inclusivity. We're saying like, yeah, we should be talking about LGBTQ issues, including all races. But then we're also isolating people. nobody's talking about accessible design. nobody's talking designing for people who are poor. nobody's talking from people who are not educated. We're just making the same mistakes, but with different faces, if you could today. The education system, what would you like to implement? What do you think is the key thing that needs to change?

Stephanie Mojica:

Well, I don't know if they're doing this today, but when I was in college, they did not like necessarily focus on on the job experience, I had to go focus on it myself and find it myself, you know, like internships, co Ops, etc. I don't know if the current education system does more with that. But I think it's important for people to learn by doing, and not necessarily sitting in a classroom all the time.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah, totally agree. I was having a discussion yesterday in clubhouse, and we were talking about that about the difference between experience and education, and educate experience is the greatest teacher, in my opinion.

Stephanie Mojica:

Yes.

Alex Villacis:

Which would you say was the experience that shaped you the best, or shaped you the most maybe negative, maybe positive, that shaped you who you are today,

Stephanie Mojica:

I guess the first internship I did for a newspaper, which was in 1998. So they need, they needed a newspaper, they had a job they'd see for a newspaper reporter, but didn't have the money to hire one. And so I thought I was gonna be following around reporter and doing stuff, but they just decided to make me do it for the summer. And I really kind of didn't know what I was doing and just had to figure it out. And so a lot of that was positive, some that was negative, because the person that actually made me do a job, I wasn't qualified for love to criticise me for doing a job that I wasn't qualified for. And he had some he's deceased now. So I feel like I can say whatever I want. He was a racist. I mean, he was a white over way, a middle aged, racist man from Pennsylvania who kind of act like redneck and treated me like a piece of crap. And actually, but other reporters taught me way more than he did.

Alex Villacis:

So he was an example of a bad teacher.

Stephanie Mojica:

Yeah, he gave me like the kind of criticism, criticism that I would never ever give anyone else. And I've had, I've had other people I've had other people tell me he was the best guy to ever work for. But you have to keep in mind that they were white men.

Alex Villacis:

Of course, that there it is. There it is. It's so situational. It's so like, whether a person is good or bad. It's so situational depending on who they're surrounded by.

Stephanie Mojica:

Yeah, exactly.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah. Oh, my God. So, so many thoughts. I just don't I want to stay in that time and be respectiful of your time.

Stephanie Mojica:

Yeah

Alex Villacis:

So how do you give critiques? Like how, what's your method for giving a critique to somebody?

Stephanie Mojica:

Well, I think you should use what people call the sandwich method, you should say something good, then say what you need to say that might be perceived as negative, and then close that with something good. When giving criticism, it's important to focus on it more than you. Like, I think instead of you did, I think that's important. I think like when giving any kind of criticism, it's important to give like a suggestion, not just, this is not good. Well, what might make it better. Like when someone writes too long of a sentence, I'll just explain that it's unclear. And it might be good to write it into two or three sentences

Alex Villacis:

Nice.

Stephanie Mojica:

So that's an example.

Alex Villacis:

So you're giving them you're not? Yeah, so you're not saying, Oh, these sentences you weren't storable? It's more like, we could make it better.

Stephanie Mojica:

Yes

Alex Villacis:

We could, like do it together or giving them what to do.

Stephanie Mojica:

Right.

Alex Villacis:

I remember, I had this one teacher who I, he was a designer, and I hated his criticism, he was the person that I knew, I am going to feel like trash. After I talked to him, I am going to feel like trash, I'm going to feel like I am in the completely wrong field. I'm going to feel like I don't know what to do. But then I had these other teacher that would tear your work apart. But then you would finish talking to that person, you would feel like, I cannot wait to take these pieces and put it back together a better way.

Stephanie Mojica:

Right? Exactly.

Alex Villacis:

Like I cannot wait to go back to the drawing board with what he told you that he told me he destroyed my work. My work was up in a million pieces. But I couldn't wait. It's that that feedback and that criticism? And now you're working with people who want to publish their books, and you're helping them with book developing? Right?

Stephanie Mojica:

Yes, yes, I'm developing their books out of them to the writing process. And then for them, as well as other people editing the final product.

Alex Villacis:

So my question is, what with the teachers that you have had in your life experience. How do you see yourself as a teacher? Do you see yourself as a teacher? And how do you feel about this concept?

Stephanie Mojica:

Yes, so I very much see myself as a teacher. So I'll explain. I work with clients a couple of ways. So some folks come to me especially coaches, consultants, business owners, and they have an idea for a book they know if they write a book, it's going to really be like a very nice business card for them, which is a very trite way to explain it, but it's really going to increase their visibility, their credibility and market rage. So a lot of people come to me and they want to write a book, then some people come maybe they've already written the manuscript for the book, but now they need an edited, so it can be published. So I work with people both ways. Some people also come to me after their book has been published, especially on sites like Amazon. And they're upset, it's not selling better. So I'd do things like change their book description, or rewrite their Amazon author page. So I guess I would say the main thing I do is the editing and the coaching. So I definitely consider myself a teacher. I was working with a client yesterday and was literally teaching her how to break down some her existing content into chapters for a book. So I also have a mini course called Get your book out of your head and into reality, where I teach people in about 90 minutes how to start writing their book, I have like 30 questions I came up with that really help people plan their book well, and then I'm always doing podcasts, interviews, rooms on clubhouse, some speaking on zoom for organisations, like coaches of colour, so I feel like I'm always teaching.

Alex Villacis:

that's wonderful! And when which would you say is the most common mistake, the one that you have to fix over and over again, or help one, I don't know what to say, fix the one that you have to coach people through over and over again.

Stephanie Mojica:

I would say their mindset. And I know, that's not necessarily teaching, but it to me it is, like, for example, a client I had yesterday was like, I don't know, if I did this, I'm gonna fail. And I have to, like, help them see that you're only going to fail if you quit. And just help them realise that they can reach their goal, their dream of writing and publishing their book. And a lot of it has to do with how they talk themselves. And a lot of it has to do with what they tell other people about their goals and plans. Because there's a lot of naysayers in the world, no matter how well meaning they may be. There's like folks that will be like, Oh, you can't write a book, you didn't get a score for that. I get that a lot. A lot of my clients didn't even have writing on their radar. But they know that it's becoming a very popular way to get their message out to more people, as well as show their because it shows our expertise and increase their visibility. So I really have to get through a lot of mindset blocks.

Alex Villacis:

And do you think it's with the current situation with COVID? And everything going more digital? Do you think there is a democratisation of education?

Stephanie Mojica:

I don't think so. I think it's actually become easier to get like and I mean, you have to also answer the question of what is education. I mean, it's not necessarily the letters behind your name. It's not necessarily a fancy degree. I mean, there's people with the grades and the best schools in a world that have no idea what they're doing. You know what I mean? Like, I'd study multiple foreign languages in college in high school, and the only way I learned foreign languages is through self study, as well as having one on one tutoring online. So I think like the formal education system is important. You definitely want people who have graduated high school, you want people who went to college or a, you know, college like programme. But I think a lot of at least for me, a lot of my learning has been on the job or things I've learned on my own.

Alex Villacis:

Yes, I love that. I love the perspective thing, especially I think, in creating Creative Industries, like design or like writing book publishing. A lot of people say no, it's like, don't go to college, you'll learn in the field. But I love that you said that. It's not about the titles you have behind your name, but you need to get the fundamentals and the basics and then know the rules before you break them. Basically,

Stephanie Mojica:

When I'm like, I hire people to do my graphics sometimes or my website. I don't even think about asking, well, where did you go to school? What degree did you get? You know, what training I look at their work their testimonials, references and talk to them. And I mean, I hired a copywriter the other day. I mean, she was somebody I already knew somebody got to know on clubhouse, but I have no idea if she even went to college or not. And frankly, it doesn't matter to me, I see the results she's getting. I am a good copywriter, but I would rather focus on other stuff for my business. And I always wrote better for about other people than myself. So I don't think about these things. I'm more like Okay, do I know this person or going to somebody who knows this person? You know, for website or graphics, I will go to sites like Fiverr but I want to see their work. I want to see their references and reviews and that's what I concern myself with. I don't know if any of these people went to school for it.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah, and and how they got there. That's their own path. Because we all have our own path. We all learn in different ways. Maybe like I'm a person that needed the structure of university, I needed to go back to school and get that system. But there are people who are more talented than me that don't need that. But in the end, it's how you work and how you develop yourself as a professional, what are professional professional you want to have, and that will be the that the proof is in the pudding. In the end, the proof is in the pudding.

Stephanie Mojica:

Exactly. I actually a few days ago, as of the date we're recording this I was co-mod, for those who don't know the clubhouse lingo it is like co hosts of room, and coaches of colour, were talking about whether you need coaching credentials, like there's a lot of very expensive coaching credentialing programmes. And some coaches think that's the only way they can be a coach. Well, for me, nobody has ever asked me if I have like a coaching certificate certificate, I have a couple nothing fancy. But I just don't think those kinds of things that are important in some ways, some of them are just marketing scams.

Alex Villacis:

I you know what I wanted to ask you that? What's the difference with a teacher and a coach? Because I share that and I've talked about this on clubhouse rooms. When somebody says like, yeah, I'm a coach. And I immediately think, what qualifications Do you have to coach anything? I think everybody can call it like you said, it's a marketing trick, almost that anybody can call as a coach today. And I don't think they need a fancy degree. But I do want to know what their experience was. And if you're coaching me on, I don't know, elephant riding? Have you ever ridden an elephant yourself? Where are you speaking from? What's your experience? And what experience can you bring to the table or to that discussion?

Stephanie Mojica:

Right, exactly. So I mean, the term coach came from athletics originally, like, you know, the guy who's like coaching the football team, the baseball team, etc. Ideally, he's somebody who used to play the sport, obviously, it could be a she as well, there are more women, athletic coaches in the world. So I think the term came from that. But really, a teacher kind of the traditional role of a teacher is they stand up in front of a classroom, they lecture, they give homework assignments, if they're a good teacher, they'll give you some good feedback, but they're not necessarily going to sit there and hold your hand figuratively, through a process unless you get like a private tutor. You know, I mean, so all these terms can be interchangeable in my experience. So there's a big difference between a role of a coach and a consultant. And I see myself as both. So like, when I'm coaching somebody, I'm doing a lot of things, I'm teaching them things that they need to know to get to where they want to be, I'm helping them with their mindset. I'm holding them accountable. You know, if they get discouraged, I in this is where people start saying, Oh, that's therapy. And it's not, I'm not dealing with people who have serious mental health issues. But you know, if something comes up in their way, it's my job to guide them through it. And then a consultant comes up with plans. And I was doing some of that said, My client, yes, then like, Okay, this is the plan for your book chapters. So a lot of these terms are interchangeable. And a lot of ways I preferred term mentor more than anything else. But I do have to market so I usually just market myself as a coach, which because the number of coaches out there now, it can be a disadvantage, because there are a lot of coaches that are saying, oh, Coach on how to have a six figure business, but they only had a six figure business through coaching people how to make a six figure business if that makes sense. They wouldn't have a six figure business if it wasn't for being a coach. So I just I just, I feel like you should know you should have some success in what your coaching about separate from the coaching itself, in order to do it ethically. But that's, that's my opinion.

Alex Villacis:

I love that I come I completely share that. And I love this idea that that that these all these titles are interchangeable. Like we said before, like sometimes you'll be a teacher, sometimes you'll be a student. And it's always this continuous cycle of learning that keeps you open to the different experiences that will teach you. Well, Stephanie, I want to thank you so much for your time and for your patience. I Is there anything you would like to plug in anything you would like to share with the audience?

Stephanie Mojica:

Sure. So I would love to stay in touch with folks I have a free book called three things you must know before writing your book. You can go to gettheirattentionnow.com/book, gettheirattentionnow.com/book. If you're ready to get started on your book, I have a mini course called Get your book out of your head into reality. That's that getthatbookwritten.com , getthatbookwritten.com as of the date of this recording. It's $27 but people keep telling me it's a little too cheap. So I'm increase but not for a few months. And I'm available for a one on one coaching, consulting, editing, proofreading, mentoring, whatever help you might need around getting your book written, published or reviving a book you've already published. So we'd love to hear from somebody, I'm on all social medias, you can find me pretty easily and my instagram, facebook, twitter clubhouse, I do have tik tok, but I'm not using it that much. That's not where my audiences, but I really look forward to connecting with some of you, folks.

Alex Villacis:

That's amazing. I will put all those informations that are going to be in the show notes. And, yes, I will definitely do my best to spread the word about how amazing of a teacher you are. Thank you so much for joining me today. And I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you, too. After Stephanie and I hung up, e got to talking about the poss bility of turning the tran cripts that I do for this podc st into a book, a book of tran cripts. And yeah, I would love to send that to all my gues s and be like, hey, you're in a book. Now. How fun is that? I wi l definitely look into her serv ces when the time is right to d it. Right. I mean, I'm a grap ic designer, I can design a book But when it comes to the conten , I always feel paraly ed. Has it happened to you? W uld you need some someone like S ephanie to hold you accoun able? I think accoun ability is such an import nt service, especially when i comes to creatives, becaus we will jump from one thing o the next at least I will. nd maybe not. You have no idea h w many unfinished projec s I have around me right now. B t this was an amazing episo e, I hope you're going to show otes and check out all the servi es to Stephanie has for you. ecause, yeah, they could chang your life. Maybe your next ook will be done with her help. So thank you so much, Steph nie, for joining me on the pod. Thank you, friend for joining me today in this wonderful conversation. Like always, I'm happy to be in your ears, enjoyed it, and that you picked up something from it, you'll find all the information to my guests social media, to their website to the best way to contact them in the show notes below. As well as a link to our website that has a transcript of this episode. And all the episodes. Why do transcripts because many reasons honestly, like not everybody speaks English as their first language, or their second language or their third. And a lot of people have these abilities, and they might need this support. And a lot of people just don't enjoy listening to podcast, but maybe they will like to know about this conversation. So you'll find links to all that in our website, which is again in the show notes as well as social media handles and other goodies. If you wish to support the podcast in any way, just send me a DM because they make me happy. Or you can also leave us a review on your favourite podcasting platform to help me improve the show and make something even better for you. And there's also a link if you want to buy me a coffee because I love coffee and it could also help support the podcast financially. I am thinking about making a newsletter to make sure that you can stay up with everything that's going on with the show and as well with things that are going on with my guests and just grow a little network of creative people sharing the journey. But anything you do to support a pod, I will appreciate it wholeheartedly and I hope you have an amazing day. Keep learning and stay curious.