Do I need school to be...

a podcaster? with Anand Dattani

April 14, 2022 Season 1 Episode 28
Do I need school to be...
a podcaster? with Anand Dattani
Show Notes Transcript

This week we have award-winning podcaster Anand Dattani on the pod and we are talking about podcasting, a very meta episode right here. Anand and I met actually on Clubhouse back when I was the hot spot in town and I’ve actually been on his podcast discussing my own immigrant story. Anand’s show ‘The Journey Onwards’ in an interview show where Third Culture Kids talk about what they have learned through their experience and their families’ experiences when they decided to leave their home country and move to a new one. 

On this interview we spoke about:

  • How Anand got into podcasting
  • How he developed his very human interviewing style 
  • Which famous friend influenced him (you probably know him as well)
  • How he learned to podcast (shout out to RTP!)
  • Where he sees creative education going and the beauty of asking questions

Want to learn more about Anand and his podcast? Here are some links:
Website
Instagram
Facebook
The Journey Onwards on Spotify
My episode on Anand’s Podcast
YouTube

Anand’s book recommendations:
The Unfair Advantage, how you already have what it takes to succeed by Ash Ali and Hasan Kubba
A more beautiful question by Warren Berger

My shout out this week is Teen Up! A podcast that digs deeper into the teenagers' minds about the wonders of the world

In an effort to make this podcast accessible, we make transcripts of every episode. You’ll find the transcripts on our website here

Special thank you to Ro Halfhide for the music on this show and to Immaculate Lemaron for proofreading the transcripts and helping this podcast be as accessible as possible.

Want to support the pod?
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook and support the show on Buy me a Coffee. We are currently looking for sponsors, if you know someone or are a local businesses in the Rotterdam area that would like to know about our sponsoring plans, reach out to us here.

Support the show
Unknown:

Maybe and I think it comes back to like, why I was doing, I don't want to go down the usual route of Always know your way but just by the fact that I was doing it because I just had a genuine interest in people's stories, and I treated it like a hobby, and not this thing that had to be 100% Perfect and bring in loads of, I don't know, whatever it may be rewards and recognition because of its phenomenal quality, because I didn't take that approach to it. It didn't crush me.

Alex Villacis:

Hello, friends. And welcome back to another episode of do I need school to be the podcast in which we Alex is going to sit down with creatives and ask them about their journey into the creative field focusing on their education, the teachers who shaped them, the boxer shaped in the movies, in general, what their journey was like, if you're somebody who is thinking about entering the creative field, I hope this job will be a resource to you and show you that we all have different paths. And they are all valid. So let's go. Hello, hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the show. It's been a minute. Yeah, it's been a minute since I last posted an episode. And well, really, I've just been really busy. I've been working really hard. I've been wrapping my head around a project that I'm doing a creative project. And it's just been taking a lot of my time and the podcast needed to be on hold for a second. But that's also fine. It's a teachable moment. And my therapist always says Not everything needs to happen right now and to give myself grace. So I've been doing that. But I'm back now and I have a very, very exciting episode for you. This week, I am talking to an attorney who is the creator of Journey onwards podcast and award winning podcaster and a person that really, yeah, I measure my podcasts against his I love how he interviews. I love his style. He has a great voice made for podcasting. And I've been a guest on his show. I'm gonna link actually my episode in the show notes down below. And it's just a great show about conversation with Third Culture kids. And if you don't know what it is, is adult like adults who have been through the experience of immigration through their parents or through immigration themselves and what they have learned and what how that has affected their lives. And this show really came from Ananse curiosity from wanting to understand himself better and wanted to understand the world better and just listen to stories. And that's why I love it so much because it's so pure, vulnerable and honest. And I'm going to stop talking now. And here is my conversation with Ananda Tani. So after all those technical glitches and the real struggle, we're finally online. So Hi, Anna, how are you today?

Unknown:

That's, that's actually such a good. It's such a good symbolism for like podcasting in general. Like it is, there's so much persistence and perseverance that you have to learn to put up with especially, especially like technical glitches, and like learning through it. There's ever since the beginning, there'll be a new technical glitch that I've had come up even a year on. So it's like, there's, there's no better way to start this off than to go through one of those again,

Alex Villacis:

you know, what, it's, I was watching this documentary, seven days on Netflix, and they're talking about restaurants and saying, like, how in restaurants is like the swan metaphor, that they look so graceful, and like they're just gliding on the water, but they're paddling super hard on their water. Same thing for podcasting. In my opinion, it's like we pretend that everything is going smoothly and perfectly, and we edit everything out. And we just hide the fact that sometimes technology fails us, like today.

Unknown:

And that's the thing, you know, when you're on the, I say, on the outside, but as a podcast listener, which, you know, I used to be for a while, you see that final product. And I mean, at least for me, I was like, oh, you know, they just, they sit down, they record it, and then they click upload, and then you know, job done. But then after going through it myself, like being on the inside, you see like how you appreciate a really good quality recording and output so much more because either someone's doing it for them or you're like, well, they've put in the graph to make this sound as good.

Alex Villacis:

That's so true. That's so true. Or even when they do like the little breaks that are they when they add I've been amazed by at when people add ads in the middle and the narrative just perfectly fits. And I think oh that's that's so that that cliffhanger right there is so smooth. It's amazing. But another we're here so you already mentioned a little bit about yourself that you're a podcaster but tell the audience who you are and what you're currently working on.

Unknown:

Yeah, so I My name is Anna and I'm from London and I am now based in London again after a brief spell away in China. In terms of why working on I do have a day job I'd say nine to five but you know everything is locked down and the new flexibility and don't get me wrong, you know my my company a very sort of flexible and they make things very How much in line with what works for us. So I wouldn't say I have a nine to five. But it is, you know, a five day a week type day job. And then yeah, on the side, I do my podcast as well, which you have been on. And that was a great episode. And that's, that's kind of it's like a side hobby, which, if it becomes, I don't put the pressure on it blowing up to become this huge thing. Because, you know, they say, you know, quality over quantity. And it's such a thing that's thrown around, but really, you know, the people I know that do listen to it, and the things they follow up with and tell me, they really love what it's about. And for me, it's like, I would rather have them talk to me about either what it's got them thinking about, or what they really learned from a conversation with someone, rather than not knowing anyone who listens to it, but just knowing that, you know, it's had a million listeners. So yeah, it's kind of a side hobby that I'm motivated by people following up and saying, what they were they really liked about it.

Alex Villacis:

I really love your show. And that's somebody who has been on it. i It did that for me. So it made me ask myself so many questions about how my background actually affected me like I had thought about those things before but not in the depth. And yeah, please tell the listeners about your show. Because it's such a, we just think it's niche. I think it's kind of niche, but it's also very broad, because you touched so many topics, but the your guests are very particular.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's a that's a it's actually a really good question. Because I didn't really know. I don't know my shows about No, I didn't really know how to how to answer that question. Because, okay, ultimately, how it began, it never began with me thinking I want to start an ongoing podcast, it was during lockdown, where I was inspired by the idea from someone else who I knew who interviewed their family members about their kind of immigrant journey so that their parents and their uncles and grandparents, they grew up in one place. And then it's, you know, they were forced to leave their site with Africa, and they were forced to leave East Africa. But and I share a very similar family background, but it's not that well known. It's not taught, you know, in history books, and then it just made me realise that, for me, it was such a, you know, it's defined who I am today. And in fact, just before I go into it, something that was really inspiring was based on someone who listened to it, they said, they were talking about how their parents went through something similar where they grew up in India, but then they moved to Dubai, and then she's been given a great opportunity because of that. And it made me realise that I was actually really fortunate that my parents, and even my grandparents decided to actually take the risk, and firstly, move from India to Africa. And then my parents generation took the risk to move from Africa, to the UK. Because if my grandparents didn't decide to leave India, then I would have been born probably in India. And if my parents didn't decide to go to the UK and decided that they didn't want to take that risk, and they went back to India, instead, I would have been born in India. And there's nothing wrong with that. But, you know, I can see, there's obviously a huge difference in the economic and social quality of life being in the UK. And it's, people don't think about that, right. And it's not their fault. You know, I didn't think about that until I realised like, wow, you know, these risk taking qualities of my family generations has allowed me this. And it makes me want to appreciate and you know, want to do good for the opportunity I've been given. So that's yeah, that's what inspired me to speak to my family members. And then following that people like, exactly people like you, and many others, they were inspired by the idea of it right. They're like, wow, it makes me want to think about my family story or my story. I've never thought about in like you said, you know, a chronological sequence and what that has meant for the person that you've become, and then so just on these, these type of conversations with people like you, it made me think that hang on, you know, why should I stop here? These, this is great. This is great content. These are great stories. I've already learned the basics of how to do podcasting, why not carry on, change the sort of focus on it a bit, and then keep going with it. Because at the end of the day, I just get to hear these these great stories and learn from you lot. So that's what kept me going.

Alex Villacis:

And how did you learn the skills of podcasting because there isn't a podcasting Academy and it's like, you can can you go to school for podcasting? I don't know. Maybe you can like for audio production, but for podcasts, typically.

Unknown:

I think I think there are now I don't know how long they've been around. So it gives me even more sort of I admire those people who've been in the game for a while and you know, there's a reason that the ones who have been in it for a while are doing so well because they firstly didn't have much basis of like schools or courses to learn it. From, but then also they decided to carry on. And you know, it filtered out all the people who didn't have the same passion or whatever it may be the same motivation. And those guys are kept going. But I think so I got into it what at the beginning of 2021. And one thing I'm always fortunate for, which you're aware of as well, is that being coupled with the rise of clubhouse, I decided, I didn't really know what my purpose on clubhouse was, in the beginning, I just thought, hey, you know, I'm one of those front runners that I've heard about this early on. And then so after wasting some as you know, wasting some time when I say wasting time in terms of I didn't have a purpose going on. It was just cool to talk to new people who are doing cool things. I realised that the podcasting is something I could use it for, because it's what I was putting my energy into at the time. And this could be biassed, but the podcasting rooms and the community and they're, by far the most selfless, like clubhouse has got a reputation for people talk the talk, but really they have their own hidden agenda. And honestly, with the podcasting guys, I never felt that. And it really wasn't because at no point did you know like the RTP, guys, the real talk post podcasting guys, they never, they never at any point asked for anything. Like, oh, hey, here's a little snippet of some help. But now you're gonna have to sign up to this to find out more, you know, pay us 10,000, we'll do X Y Zed for you. There was never that they just came on what like three, four times a week or even daily. And you could just ask whatever you wanted. So I was I think I told Tyler that I then three months of knowledge in about 10 days because of that. So that's where I really learned.

Alex Villacis:

You know what RTP is so close to my heart. Like at one point I was spending every morning like for their morning, my afternoon with those like an hour a day with those dudes asking them the dumbest questions. And what to me, they seem dumb. But to them. They were like, yeah, these are like the classic beginner questions or things you want to know. And for the longest time, I thought RTP stood for Roman Tanner and Pedro, which are the three dudes that started it.

Unknown:

And wasn't that but wasn't that wasn't meant to be a play on?

Alex Villacis:

No. on. It was complete coincidence. They went for like real podcasting because they were like, yeah, the real talk, like you said, it's like being super honest about what it takes. Not being not asking people for money. Or being like, yeah, hey, like you said, like, subscribe to my channel, or pay me 10,000 euros, and I'll give you a perfect course. So it was just pure coincidence?

Unknown:

Well, I always thought it was part of the plan. But that's pretty cool.

Alex Villacis:

That's like, it's synchronistic. It just happened. It's almost mystical. But yeah, I think that's, that's all true. I think you and I met at that. Like I know, we met on clubhouse. I don't know if we met in a room about immigration and immigrant stories, or any one of those real talk podcasting rooms.

Unknown:

Now I remember you'll be able to sort of complete the story because it was some you spoke on something to do with a plugin on accessibility that you were working on, or you wanted in your website to make it more accessible to, to people that I had not even ever thought of. And that's when I was trying to build my own website for the platform. And I was like, wow, this is this is so key. And then from there, then I saw you a few times. Often I was like, Oh, she's great. So that's that's what it was. Yeah.

Alex Villacis:

Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, you're so right. I gotta remember we're talking about, like, yeah, the different because we're recommending a plugin. And I always said that I had used it. And I gave my opinion on it. Because, yeah, through clubhouse, I didn't really learn about podcasting or to learn about accessibility. And yeah, for a while it was this place where you could learn a lot of things for free really like access to experts. Are you still on it?

Unknown:

On clubhouse? Yeah. I mean, I've got the app, but I probably hadn't logged on for saying I can't even Yeah, I mean, I think I remember once clicking on it, and there's still rooms going and so some names I recognise but it's yeah, the the number of rooms has decreased dramatically dramatically.

Alex Villacis:

So before the recording stopped, because that's what happens. And I was asking you about, like, what was your process of learning aside from the RTP guys giving you tips and so on? Did you have anybody else that helped you learn and then the recording broke and I am in a space of I'm gonna lose my mind in this day. But you have a very positive attitude about like, yeah, maybe it happened, but maybe we can use it in a positive way. Rephrase the question. Can you explain to me that mindset because I don't have

Unknown:

so yeah, I'd love to I'd love for it to come from a place of like, I'm just so revered and you know, I see the the optimism and everything but I think it's just because you know the great thing about This conversation is we're doing a podcast where you're asking me about podcasting. So it's like, all the troubles that come up I can, I'm speaking from a point of view of, I'm not saying I've been through them all, but I've been through so many issues and glitches and errors, and like, this is one of them where either it's cut out on my end or is cut out on their end. But when it comes to because I do my own editing, I know already where it's like, that's actually not a bad place for it to cut out. Because you're in the, as the host, you're in the middle of asking something. So when I, if it's ever cut out in the middle of me asking you something, I'm like, Oh, that's great, I can just re ask it and maybe say even better than then I would have said it. And then they can carry on answering. Whereas, you know, as a guest, for me if they're in the middle of giving, and it's happened, where they they're in the middle of giving their story or their answer or their inspiration, and then it's cut out. So they've lost their you know, their train of thought, their momentum, and then then we go back online, and then I have to re ask the question, so they have to start again. And they want to try and make it sound similar to what they first started saying. But once you lose that train of thought, if you if you because your part of your mind is thinking, Oh, what did I say? Again, I need to make sure I say those bits that I said again, and then it never comes out as well. So that's why it's like, you know, the fact that was in the middle of you asking the question. It's gonna be it's gonna be alright. Yeah,

Alex Villacis:

that is so honest and true. And that comes from that, for every product that people listening. This comes from an award winning podcaster giving me a teachable moment in real life in real time at aka recorded on a podcast.

Unknown:

I'm happy to have gone through the misery so someone else doesn't have to. Because it's yeah, it's been one hell of a journey. That's for sure.

Alex Villacis:

You know, like now that you say that I was thinking, somebody that will interview in end of April, actually, his name is Kevin Baxter. Really cool. Dude, he teaches creatives. And he always says that when he teaches somebody he tells them. I'm giving you the escalator. Because I had to take the stairs like that. The only thing that I'm asking is that you give the next person the elevator.

Unknown:

So good. Yeah, I love that.

Alex Villacis:

But yeah, going back to the questions, like what like, did you go through a trial and error process like using the RTP? Guys, the sources? Or did you take a course on podcasting? Or have you been teaching yourself learning on the go with YouTube? Your education?

Unknown:

Is? Yeah, that's a good question. So, you know, from a, from a technical standpoint, and I don't mean, you know, super technical, but just learning what audio settings to put or what mic to buy, even Riverside, right, all of these kinds of so Riverside being the recording tool that we're using now, all of that knowledge came from, you know, Roman or tanto. Pedro, one of them. And so, all of those things they, they taught me, and, like I say, escalated me having to look up like, Oh, what are the top 10 platforms, which one is best for beginners? Which one's best for growing podcasts, all of that stuff. So that escalated all of that learning or elevated, elevate, elevated, elevated, so that someone else can use the escalator. But the, in terms of my sort of framing my voice, which is something that I learned later on, because in the beginning, it was very, as I was doing, you know, question answer, question answer, and it's something that's common, I found.

Alex Villacis:

Hey, friend, it's Alex, just interrupting this conversation to remind you that in order to have the optimal experience, and enjoy all the links in the show notes, you can subscribe to the show on any platform you're using to listen to this podcast. And yeah, it supports the show, it will improve the algorithm for you. So we will show you more shows like this one that you will potentially like. And if you wish to support the show, you can follow us on social media, all the links are in the show notes as well as a link to buy me a coffee, which Yeah, will help pay for the hosting. And I also love coffee. And now that I have you here like really quickly, I would like to give a shout out to another podcast. I mean, Anna and I are talking about how we learn to be podcasters. And these podcasts I'm gonna shout out now it's called Teen up and it's made by two very young podcasters Glen and Isabella, who are actually teenagers, they're finishing high school and going into college. And they have this amazingly well structured and consistent show. I really envy their consistency and quality. Like every month they will choose a topic like a very broad topic, let's say bullying, and for the four episodes of that month, they will just like break it down and have different guests take different perspectives. It's really a very round show that I have thoroughly enjoyed. And I just wanted you to also hear about it and yeah, go check it out. You will find a link to them in the show notes. notes it's really high quality like Anna was saying like, sometimes you listen to podcasts and you hear the quality, this a high quality show. So check them out Glen Isabella from Tina podcast, you will find them in the show notes. But enough my Bible, let's get back to the show. Like is there a host that you're like, This is my role model host or what podcasts? Are you listening to the you are like, this is super influential in my style.

Unknown:

So is Yeah. As a as a feeling this question will come up so. So, one of for sure. I mean, this is gonna be so biassed, but So Jay Shetty is like, my high school friend. So he was, you know, my best friend since I was like, 15. So there's definitely a bias am I'm gonna say, but I always say that objectively, regardless of if I knew him or not. I think his material is phenomenal. You know, there's a reason he's so successful. But it's, you know, I always try and frame it in the way of just his style. And that probably explains why we were friends, right? I know how he thinks, I know, he speaks, I know how we communicate. So in this style of delivery, we you know, we're both from London, we're both North London Boys. And he's now in America. So I can really resonate with how he says things. And then so that he's one person I used to listen to, apart from that. I think Lewis houses content is very good. And it also makes sense why Lewis and Jay are such good friends. And then recently, more recently, I say more recently, I'd say in the last like, six, seven months, Steven Bartlett has become again, you know, I think he's sure he's a London boy, he's a, he has a different style to Jay. But they're both were the sort of impact that their material has, whether they're interviewing a guest, or whether they're doing their solo episodes. I really think like after those 3040 minutes, I'm like down that was, you know, I listened to the whole thing without feeling distracted or getting distracted by anything around me. So I want to be able to do that where, you know, someone could listen to me for 30 minutes, and be like fully engaged in that without being like, Oh, I listen to 15 minutes, then I take a break, but I'm going to finish another 15 minutes later. So those, I'd say, Yeah, Steven and Jay, the two people that I take a lot of inspiration from, but I also love Louis's content as well.

Alex Villacis:

You know what, now that you say it, I do see it. I personally, if I think about your show, and J show, something that you guys both have is that it never feels like you're lecturing anybody. It doesn't feel like a formal interview, it doesn't feel like dirt, dirt, like maybe you want it to feel, but that's how it feels. For me. It doesn't feel like a journalistic interview or a documentary, it feels like you're honestly just sitting in front of somebody, and you're like having a coffee or B or whatever. And you're just asking questions and pondering about life.

Unknown:

I mean, that's it. Yeah, that means that that means a lot to hear that. Yeah, yeah,

Alex Villacis:

it just feels like you're like you, at least I feel SN, as an audience member, as a listener, like, I'm just sitting on the table with you guys. And that's what I personally appreciate. I don't feel like you draw the distance between the host and I'm talking to an expert, and that's the audience member over there. It's like there's this closeness, and you both you both have that quality.

Unknown:

I think it's a really, it's a really important thing you touched on. And I'm glad you mentioned it, because it made me think about something that I think is really important in this podcasting space, which is that, and not in all cases, because some people are purely driven by using podcasting, as you know, another pillar of marketing for their business, which is fine. But you know, for for something for topics like these. For me, hopefully I've communicated how it's about, I'm just genuinely interested in this space, because it first started with my family I'm obviously interested in, but then speaking to people like you and the other guests before having them as a guest. I was just fascinated by their story. And I wanted to put it out for others to hear. So just like, you know, in entrepreneurship, they often say that, you know, the idea is not enough to make you an entrepreneur, or to keep you going. It's and it's not even the motive, but it's the motivation. So there's a motive in the motivation. So with something like this, and what you say about Jay is because there's a genuine interest in the guests story, or what they have to offer. And so I'm genuinely asking questions, not to think, How can I extract something that's going to, you know, make this a how to podcast for success, but it's just I want to know your story that how I would, if we were sitting in a room, the only difference is it's being recorded. But what one thing that I try and do is make the guests feel like they are just talking to me over a Skype call or something and not hey, we're sitting down for a formal podcast session. And then in that way, that's what I've noticed that I didn't used to do that in the beginning, but as I've started to do without more, it becomes easier for exactly like you're saying the listener to tune in and be like, Wow, I feel like I'm just sharing the room with you guys.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah, and you also create this space that allows people to be vulnerable, that I think it's so important. And it's like, You're not here to sell me a product, you're not here to tell me your success story, Lex, you're here to tell me about your your failures as well. Because in the end, somebody else gonna listen to it, it's gonna resonate. And talking about that, like, have you had like an, like a failure? Let's call it like an episode that just didn't go or that just flopped? Or

Unknown:

why I literally have had an episode that didn't go yeah, if you want to. There's a. And it's sad, because don't get me wrong. The guest was super patient. And he had some really good content in there. But I don't know, I think it was on my end. And it was, it was just the fact that I was using an old laptop. This is one of the earlier episodes where I had just moved across to Riverside. So I was using Zoom. Where zoom has the benefit that everyone knows how to well, most people know how to use it, but also the, because the quality is lower, the file sizes are lower as well. So I never had an issue with putting a full episode together, right. But as soon as I moved to Riverside, the jump up in quality is insane. But that also means that it's using up a lot of the computer processing power and memory. And so I started to realise that my laptop was just not cut out for it. So unfortunately, he was one of the earlier episodes where, because it went on for quite a while a lot of the computer processing power was being or the memory sorry, was being sucked up, and then it just kept on cutting out. And, you know, it goes back to that thing of if it feels the middle of me asking a question, that's fine, because I could answer it. Because I could ask it again. But there will I think there was one question I asked him, where he must have answered it four times. And he always did a really good job with it. He never showed any frustration. He's like, no worries, man, I understand how it is. I think he was in the kind of tech space. So he understood, you know, Tech has its flaws, if you're not prepared. But the end content, it was so choppy. And that, you know, there was it even became that because my laptop was lagging my question suddenly recorded midway through his answer, because it took so long to get recorded or something. And it's just basically I had to admit defeat, and I couldn't use it in the end. So that was yeah, you know, that was that was tough. Whereas there have been so that was that was the hardest thing where especially because you know, you never want to record an episode and not release it. I know as you become more professional and like a global podcast. And I've heard people say that I record so many that so I'm just not cut out for my show. Fine. But you know, I'm not at that sort of level. Or neither would I want to do that. But apart from that there's there have been cases where, luckily, the recording has been bad on my side, so that I've had to then go and rerecord my bits and then sort of merge it with all of their answers. And actually, the end product did work out looking nicer. But it did mean that I had to spend probably five times longer putting it together because I had to literally rerecord everything I said in that whole hours conversation,

Alex Villacis:

I think that I think that's such an important point. Because like the party, you say, accepting defeat, I think a lot of people, especially creatives, like I will not accept defeat or they see failing as such a, like a such a horrible thing. But then it's like failing upwards, I'm guessing that this experience, like taught you something and you're like, you know what, things can go south. And maybe that's where your can do attitude comes from.

Unknown:

Maybe and I think it comes back to like, why I was doing I don't want to go down the usual route of Always know your way. But just by the fact that I was doing it because I just had a genuine interest in people's stories. And I treated it like a hobby, and not this thing that had to be 100% Perfect and bring in loads of, I don't know, whatever it may be rewards and recognition because of its phenomenal quality because I didn't take that approach to it. It didn't crush me. Obviously, I was just upset I it was an episode that I couldn't release. But it didn't mean I was going to be like, right I hate this stuff I've done

Alex Villacis:

so if you had to give advice to like if if a young, one of the ingenue one of the podcast or came to you and said, Hey, man, I want to learn from you. I like would you give them that separate? Like, what's your first tip Be? Make sure your computer has enough capacity to run an interview? Or would it be be open to mistakes like what would you tell them? Like what would you be like you're the first thing that you tell them

Unknown:

I wouldn't actually tell them anything as a first thing I would ask them, I would like, I probably would, because I because I, I wouldn't, because I love,

Alex Villacis:

I would ask them something, they

Unknown:

think Ding, ding, ding ding. Because, because I genuinely love the concept of podcasting. Like, from what, from what it can do for the host of what it can do for the guests, I would really want to understand what inspired them to come to me for tips like what basically why they're doing it right. And then once I know that, then I kind of know what's more important for them, you know, if they are doing it to like, support an existing business and bring in new revenue streams, or get, you know, this kind of recognition, then I probably would tell them all the tech stuff and like, okay, get a camera, let's at least get this good get a microphone that's at least that good, because you're important is you want to do something with 100 that you know, the best quality you can. And that's what's important, because it's affecting your like, business revenues, or whatever it may be, you probably also want to get, I would even say, if it's that important to you then get a sort of podcast technician to begin with, so that it's just great from the beginning. But if it's someone, if I've understood that it's someone who like me, just like has a real interest in a specific field, and they want to have that go at either being have the chance to meet new people or because podcasting really allows you to do that. Or they're just, you know, they just like the idea of the dish, they just, I don't know, thrilled by being a host of something, then then it would be a different conversation, right, then it would be about, you know, what is your style? What is your role, like one thing I learned, which is kind of like what I was saying one of the pieces of feedback I got was, someone said, they don't know enough about me, or they don't hear enough about my side, because I was always about bringing the other the guests story out. And I remember in the episode that they gave me feedback on, I began talking about a story of mine that I could relate to the person. And then I even said, but anyway, I don't want to get into too much of my own thing. Blah, blah, blah. And then I moved on to the next question. And then the girl, she immediately gave me feedback. That why did you do that? Like I was about to hear your side of the story, which I was waiting to hear. And then you cut it short and moved on? And then I realised that wow, yeah, you're right. You know, what, what is the consistent thing in a podcast is the host, the guests change all the time. So unless, you know, unless you have celebrity guests, or niche guests, like if I did a soccer podcast, where I just have a new soccer player on and you love soccer, I don't know why I'm calling it soccer. I'm from the UK. And I wanted to I was like, this is having this is having American guests and what it does, okay, let's go back to football. I'm from the UK. Yeah, let's stick by the English way of saying it. Yeah, if I'm doing a football podcast and our football players on, then I know that a listener will keep on listening, because it's football as they love. Whereas something like this, because they're particularly individual stories. And I am, I can relate to them. Because I share a similar background of being a third culture kid being a kid of immigrants. I'm the constant. So to keep people listening on, they need to know who I am. And so that's when I realised that I need to make sure I know my role in this in this podcast. And so that's actually the first thing I would tell someone, once I figured out what their purpose is, I would say what like what is why are you doing this particular niche or story? And then once you know that, make sure you know what your role is in it. And are you just an interviewer fine. Or if I feel it's similar to my type of podcasting, then you need to know that you are just as important a contributor to the episode, the week in week out as the guest is.

Alex Villacis:

Damn, that's so deep. Now, we're question Is there anybody you would send away? Is there anybody you would go like, you need to find somebody else? Because I cannot help you?

Unknown:

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think it would be Oh, as in someone from the beginning, you know, just dying off.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah. I mean, if somebody's starting off, and you realise, like, everybody can learn whatever they want, everybody can make the show they want but if, like, how important is it to you that you're the right person for them? Because we always talk about that. It's like, I honestly believe that the teacher comes from the student is ready, and that not every teacher is right for everybody. I mean, my dad is I love my dad to death, but he's a terrible teacher. He's right. He's a he's a great lecturer, but I'm still traumatised from him teaching me how to ride a bike. I'm still traumatised. So but so the teacher is also important. Like if you like, is there somebody that you would say, or maybe that specific person but would you ever say like yeah, I'm not the right person for you, I'm not the right fit. Or would you?

Unknown:

Know, I think you're right. And there are okay. So, you know, the topic of fake it till you make it or, you know, being authentic and genuine something that's, it's I mean, that's not a new concept, but it's, it's become so important that you know, there is some element of fake it till you make it which does happen in podcasting where you know, it's like, especially is that you know, they tell hosts, like beat yourself up more, because it then allows the listener to be like, Wow, that you know, this person is a valuable asset. Because in the beginning, it's often hard to frame yourself like that. But I think if it comes to someone coming to me, asking me questions, that are not something that I've actually been on the journey of myself, I'm, I'm lying to myself, and also to them about what I'm actually saying, because so for example, if they came to me and said, How do I make 10k off my podcast, even if I've heard from like the ITP guys how to do it, I haven't done it. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to just regurgitate what they say. I will tell them to go to them. And in the same way of like, when it comes to equipment, like I think I have a good mic and a good setup. But you know, I don't have a studio, I don't have three different mics from different angles, doing all that. So if they were like, How can I really turn this into, you know, the podcast that you see in the 1%? I don't know, well, I probably know how I can try and do it. But I haven't done it. I haven't put it to the test. So I couldn't say this is going to work for you. So if it comes to questions like that, well, I haven't been on that part of the process yet. I'll admit that I won't be able to answer it.

Alex Villacis:

Have you seen those courses, like here's a course about how to make 10k by creating courses. It's so thick. I don't know how often I ranted on this podcast about courses, like online courses like that. But that's exactly what bugs me from somebody saying, I'm gonna give you a course on how to make courses so you can be as successful as making courses. And I'm kind of same as you when it comes to on like all these online courses that came out through the pandemic being like, Okay, I'm going to teach you how to do this. Have you been there before? Or are coaches I've gone, I've gone off about coaches so much

Unknown:

be like how the word the word has really been watered down for what it is. And I don't know, you know, it's, I guess, I don't know what it comes. I don't want to say that it comes down to people's like morals and stuff. But you know, if you're, the kind of people you're targeting are normally ones that are like kind of desperate to find out how to multiply whatever money they have, right? You know, if someone's making six figures, if someone's on 200k, they're not interested in how to make their next 10k. So someone who's looking to make 10k is probably a lot of their disposable income. And so to, and I'm just talking generally again, but you know, if for you to be willing to do that, knowing that you can make an extra 10k have someone who desperately needs it, and you and you genuinely are not convinced that you will be able to help, then, yeah, it's sad that they're sad to think like that, that.

Alex Villacis:

For me, a coach needs to be like for at least for me to believe that it's like, I need you to be like a sponsor be like you can tell me that you have been through the hardship that you have been through a similar story than me. And that's why I think your podcast is so valuable. Because you can see people as a as a person that comes from immigrant parents with an immigrant story, you see people succeeding that I have a story similar to you. And that's why it's so important because a lot of immigrant kids, like people who listen to my podcast, don't see themselves represented. And that's why I try to like go for a diverse pool of guests, for people who have had a different story, a different education, saying like, Hey, I didn't make it into art school. Honestly, I didn't, I found a mentor, I had a mentor on Patreon, or I just learned myself or I found a coach that taught me and so on, you know. And yeah, I love your approach. And now that we are here like talking about like how to learn and develop yourself and courses, where do you see education going in the future? Maybe this is a very broad question, and we can leave it in podcasting, or we can go more general into like the entire education field. Like what do you think will happen in the next stages in human development?

Unknown:

Yeah, I wish I could say what I think will happen. I can say what I hope will happen is over over lockdown apart from doing this podcasting actually took up a lot more reading for two reasons, partly because I had more time to read because I wasn't, didn't have any sort of like social events and all that. But also, when it came to what I really love about like being a podcast host as well is it's made me want to brush up on my own knowledge and learn Learning. So I just read a lot more. And you know, some of the books that were really good, like there's one called a more beautiful question by Warren Berger. And he, it's a great book, it covers a lot of how important asking questions is. So, you know, a great coach is someone who knows how to ask the great questions. And it might contradict what we were just saying a bit earlier. But even if you look at, you know, Serena Williams, Serena Williams, Novak, Djokovic, whoever, I don't know why focus on tennis there. I think there's the examples that it gave. But the people who are at the top of their field at what they do, they still have a coach, the coach is not better than them or what they do, right. But the coach now knows how to ask the right questions to get them to be better. That's the role of a good, good coach. Right? Whereas mentors actually give more tips. So what else the book talks about is how the education system. So when we are children, as children, you know, they're the most very inquisitive on the whole, right? You know, we're born into this brand new world, and the kids just ask questions, and whatever they have no, shame is just coming up with genuine interest. But schools were designed in a way, whether intentionally or unintentionally, there was shaped in a way that children lose that natural curiosity, right? Because it's been, and I don't want to I'm not speaking for the world. But you know, having been to the UK education system, I know, the US education system is like, targeted a lot for this. But it teaches you how to learn facts and regurgitate and do well in exams, because that's what's gonna get you the job. And it's approach that really made sense during the Industrial Revolution, because during that point, it was about factories, machines, excessive productivity. So it's like, how can we get you to learn quick and efficiently and do your job? Right. So that's how schools are designed. And I know, it's changing a lot now. And that's where, you know, in a nice way, like Africa is kind of leading the way. But what, what I hope that schools will do more of and I know they're doing it is free framing the whole system. Oh, wow, that's such a big thing to say, but in a way that you actually really get rewarded and merited for questioning, even if it's questioning. Like, even if it's considered stupid, right? It's because it's not right. Just Just the fact by questioning, like you say, you know, we thought we were asking dumb questions to the ITP. Guys, but they recognise that actually is not dumb. You're just, you are starting off, it makes sense that you're asking these questions. So the kid should never feel stupid for asking whatever questions. Right? And that's where I think it will go that way. Because look at like, some of the innovations, right? Like Netflix, for example, came about because the founders asked, why can't we create a business model, which is like renting DVDs, but like a gym membership? I think that was literally the kind of question that was asked. And then Netflix came about because blockbuster had its flaws. So it's like, I want to be able to digital, what I didn't think they started digitally, but I wouldn't be able to rent movies. But I don't want to have to worry about late fees or struggling with that. So can I just pay a monthly membership and have access to movies? Right? And then that's that's basically where Netflix died. And you know, you don't know how well it's done now. So being encouraged us as Christians that that that age will just be more people will have that kind of innovative mindset. And just one of the example that I want to give that I think it was actually from I don't think this was the same book, I think, oh, yeah, it was from a book called conflicted by Ian Lesley. And I thought this was really cool. So Warren Buffett, I think, you know, probably the most successful like investor, he, when he was looking at m&a deals, you normally hire like an external advisor, to figure out if this is a good m&a deal to go through, right. But quite often, the advisors fee, or financial incentive comes from proving that it is actually a good m&a deal transaction to go through. Right. So they're encouraged to try and prove that, whether they realise it or not, they aren't, you know, you onboard an advisor to tell you yes or no, but they're probably financially they're better off if they do say yes, so they're going to find ways to say yes, so then instead of, then just trying to make sure you come back with anything that would go against their reasons, you know, their proposal for it being a good m&a deal. He would hire another party and another Advisory Board, who were financially incentivized to say why it's not a good m&a deal. So it means that they're actually fighting to say that this is not a good m&a deal. So now you're really getting both sides of the thing. So this is all about, again, I know I've kind of gone outside of the box of what I'm trying to say here, but it's like, by making them ask the questions and do the research and being incentivized financially to come up with an opposing argument. Then you're going to get to the risk or you're more likely to get to a high A quality output to then decide, is this actually a good m&a deal to go through or not? So that's something he would do. And it means it means it's costing him more upfront to pay for two advisors. But how much more beneficial? Is it that he's going to then go into an m&a deal with much higher quality information? So I think, yeah, these kinds of things is the direction that I hope, schooling and education goes in, like just being encouraged as much as possible. And, you know, grade wise rewarded for asking questions. And then also, just this mindset of create conflict in the right way, because it's going to make things of a higher quality.

Alex Villacis:

That's so cool. That's so deep. It's so true. And also, like on the topic of, of like podcasting, and so on, there is this one podcast that I love, and it's exactly about that. It's called. I think one more step. It's an NPR podcast, but it's a sub club podcast for NPR. And it's really cool. I think, I think I mentioned it on the on my episode on your podcast. That is they get these two people from opposite sides of the aisle on one topic, but they're similar on everything else. Like they're the same race or the same age or the same gender, but they disagree on one particular point. And and that's cool. Yeah. And they have to talk to each other. without, like, it's not about convincing each other on their point is just like asking questions be like, Okay, if you're like something big abortion, it's like, okay, why are you pro abortion that because I don't understand. It's just encouraging, asking questions with the idea that the more questions you ask, the more you realise that you're actually more similar than you thought that is just this one thing that is setting you apart. And yeah, asking questions. It's such a valuable skill. That, yeah, it should be more rewarding. I love that. Because then you're also encouraged to follow your curiosity to see what you're actually interested in. Because maybe physics is as a topic, not your thing. But you ask questions, and you realise, hey, there is a part of it like a microscopic part that is kind of interesting. I'm gonna hold on to that with your life to get through the semester.

Unknown:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, asking questions is always seen as if you ask questions, it means you don't know the answer. So it means you're less less smart than someone who does know the answer. But if that's just how the scoring system has been built, right, I'll figure it out myself. Because I don't want them to know I don't know it. But you know, you shouldn't be there shouldn't be the right approach.

Alex Villacis:

Yeah, I have a teacher actually, I had her on the podcast is Ginger coons. She's, I think one of my early episodes. She asks the weirdest questions, and I am made kind of traumatised by it. If she could ask me what time it is. And I would generally go in my head, when she really want to know what what is time? What is she meaning by time? Where are we in space? And she generally just wants to know what time it is. But it's because she's so good at asking questions that I automatically like going to this higher mindset of what is reality? If she's asked me for a pencil, is the pencil real? Is it material? Where are we? But I love that. And so are these two books, something you will recommend another person like getting to the end of the show? And I always ask like, Is there something you would recommend somebody to a creative starting on in podcasting, or maybe just think in creative life or in life?

Unknown:

Yeah, so those two big 100% For sure. Regardless of podcasting, right. I like I say, you know, I don't think I've read a book on podcasting, I used the clubhouse to really accelerate my knowledge of the actual operational side of podcasting. And just to hear from other people who are on that journey, it was really helpful to be like, Well, I'm not alone. I'm not just the only starter in this space. But then, also, because I said, like, I listen to the podcast, so I never read read books on it. So the books that I read, like those two, and another one that just love, love, love for what it what it taught me about mindset is called unfair advantage. The unfair advantage and it is by

Alex Villacis:

cannot remember, I can look it up and put it in the show notes. Don't worry, I put them all in the shownotes

Unknown:

it there's two authors, I believe, Ali, and Hassan but yeah, look that up for sure. But it talks about this thing called the miles framework. And this is our way of what we should do is look at ourselves and think about what unfair advantages that we have. And it's the reason it's called an unfair advantage because it's trying to say that capitalise on these unfair advantages that you have, obviously be grateful that you have them. But we always focus on what we don't have, like I don't have enough money to do that. I don't have enough. You know, my network's not strong enough to take on to the next step or the next idea, but we don't spend enough time capitalising on what unfair advantages we do have and there's been this book goes into So many examples of brands and success stories, things like Google that have come about and like Huda Catan, it talks about her example of being a makeup artist in America and how she blown through the roof because she really leveraged those unfair advantages. So you can use that and you can figure out what yours are. I mean, so just to briefly touch on, so the miles framework is money, intelligence, location, education, or expertise, and status. So those are like the way it's broken down. And like one example that I love that it talks about is using your wealth. So you normally start with financial wealth. For example, I think it goes in this order that you have financial wealth, and that obviously can serve certain benefits, that can increase your social wealth, right? The more money you have, the more you can go into like, higher status places, and then you'll have access to more people with bigger finances, right? Like, if you want to join a private club, whatever, then there's going to be other people who are like part of this private member's club, you have the chance to access more money through being part of that. And then the last one is, I think it's called they call it cultural status. So our cultural capital, sorry, the financial capital, social capital is your network and then cultural capital. And this is everything from how you dress, how you sound, right, how you're able to deliver certain things, your your, you know, your interest, like your spiritual, your spirituality, these kinds of things. These are all cultural capital that you have. Right? So I don't know, people say that I have a, you know, it's really easy to listen to me on a on a podcast, because it's very, you know, soothing, vulnerable, let people be vulnerable,

Alex Villacis:

I realise, you have a great podcasting, if I may say,

Unknown:

hate, as, as someone who edits their own episodes, I hate listening to my voice, right. But then I've just, I've just, I've learned to accept that from hearing that that is cultural capital that I have that I can use to my advantage. So anyway, that that for sure is without giving away the whole book is one I definitely recommend.

Alex Villacis:

Nice. I'll definitely put it in the show notes then, like so much. And thank you so much, Amanda, thank you for your patience. Thank you for your support in this struggle that has been recording this episode, it feels great to have an award winning, I would like put that in as much as I can like an award winning podcaster supporting this journey that I'm on.

Unknown:

Now, I love I love what you're doing. And because it's, you know, obviously, like, I don't know how many guests I've had on the show now, like over 50. And you're, you said you want to start your own one? I've trust me. I've spoken to others who've said the same thing, right? You're probably the only one who actually has done it. Right. So there's, I admire so much that someone who's said it, and I'm not saying the other ones got lazy or maybe you know, there's obviously other reasons why they didn't. But the fact that you said you wanted to start your own podcast and you have is, you know, this is amazing to see.

Alex Villacis:

You know, that's something I learned in clubhouse like I was, I think somebody said like, I think it was a group of our motivation or something. I don't know who said it, but it was a woman. She said, if you have a goal, if you want to do something, tell as many people about it as you can just tell them because the more you talk about it, like a lot of people think like if you say something, you're not going to do it like Don't Don't share your dreams or don't share a goal. Yeah. But if it's something you can actually do and depends only on yourself, because it really depended on me if I started the podcast or not tell as many people as possible because it's what happened when you messaged me and said like, Hey, how's your podcast going? Like, I got the satisfaction of saying like, Yeah, I'm doing it. It's on episode 27. It's like it's going and you get that little. I said, I was gonna do it. Now I have to do it. And it's not like I'm gonna learn how to do a handstand. It's something that it's it's a lot. The threshold is lower than the handstand in my opinion. So people say that it isn't.

Unknown:

Honestly as someone who's actually trying to learn to do a handstand Yeah, the threshold is there a handstands are difficult.

Alex Villacis:

I am trying to learn what like CrossFit style. It's crazy. It's it's a whole different handstand for the one that I learned that I learned how to do in yoga, like my mind is rapping. But yeah, that's a whole nother that's a whole other podcast. Like, how do we do handstands? It's a whole other episode.

Unknown:

I'd love to I'd love to actually, I'd love someone to just teach me the quickest way. I'm sure there's courses on this maybe 10,000 hours of course 10,000 Euro course on how to do handstand in two weeks, but

Alex Villacis:

I can recommend you one I can recommend you a really good one that helped me a lot to not succeed or not succeed but understand the mechanics at least. Oh, cool. Yeah. Okay, awesome, then, is because the episode is there anything you would like to plug probably your own show or your day job? I don't know what your day job is to be honest.

Unknown:

Yeah. The day job we'll put a lovely little No, I love my job, but it's a we'll stick to the podcast. So it's called the Janee ombuds podcast, the tagline is Third Culture conversations because it's the idea of talking about talking to other third culture kids or kids of immigrants and conversations because it really is a conversation and not like an interview. And yeah, you know, there's a, it's almost the platform's as a Instagram page at the journey onwards podcast. So really, really happy if people want to check it out or even just message me about anything. You know, like I said, I'll try and help with the stuff I can help with. So yeah,

Alex Villacis:

yeah, I'll put it. I'll put it all in the show notes. And thank you so much. And then

Unknown:

thank you, thank you for doing this.

Alex Villacis:

I am so happy to be back. And honestly, I loved editing this episode, I had so much fun, like reliving this conversation reliving the trauma of technology failing me, because I learned a lot. And that's part of the process, like a nun was saying, like, if you make a mistake, like sometimes you make a mistake, and it's going to be part of the process. And we like to edit things to make them look like they're perfect, but they're not like honestly, this wasn't a perfect show, technically, but I think the content is solid. I really love what we talked about. I love the tips. I hope you look up the books that he recommended, because I didn't there. Yeah, I bought them. Okay, I bought them. Um, so me, I buy the books my guests recommend, because I like reading. And I like learning. And like he said, it's about asking questions, and establishing what you're curious about and following your own path and following your own journey. And if you fail, if you're enjoying it and you fail, then fail upwards and keep trying. And if nothing else, take away the annonce positive energy because lord knows I don't always have it. But I'll keep going back to this conversation. In my mind next time technology is trying to sabotage my show. But again, thank you so much, you'll find links to annonce show and to his information in the shownotes reach out to him. He's a really cool dude. And as we come to the end of the show, I want to say thank you for joining me on another episode and giving me your time. I hope you're enjoying these conversations. Please subscribe to the show, give it a review or give us feedback. It's always welcome. Are there questions you would like to ask Creatives or do you have somebody who would like to recommend for the show, you can reach out to me on social media or email, which is all linked in the show notes. Also special thank you to Anne, Catherine and Marcus for supporting the show through buy me a coffee. I love you guys and I appreciate the encouragement. Also thank you to Rojas Haida for the music for this show. And to immaculate la Maron for her help proofreading the transcripts and helping keep the podcast as accessible as possible to close. Thank you for listening again this week, and I hope to be back in your ears very soon. Until then, keep learning and stay curious.

Unknown:

Bye